"Beside me on the left appeared an angel in bodily form . . . He was not tall but short, and very beautiful; and his face was so aflame that he appeared to be one of the highest ranks of angels, who seem to be all on fire . . . In his hands I saw a great golden spear, and at the iron tip there appeared to be a point of fire. This he plunged into my heart several times so that it penetrated my entrails. When he pulled it out I felt that he took them with it, and left me utterly consumed by the great love of God. The pain was so severe that it made me utter several moans. The sweetness caused by this intense pain is so extreme that one can not possibly wish it to cease, nor is one's soul content with anything but God. This is not a physical but a spiritual pain, though the body has some share in it -- even a considerable share." (Teresa of Avila, Autobiography,
ch. 29).
As you can see in the picture, the ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila is shown in this famous Bernini sculpture. How do you relate this motif to John Donne's Holy Sonnet XIV ("Batter my heart, three-personed God")? In Donne's poem, have you found any similar paradoxes that conflate sexual violence with spiritual/religious epiphanies?
25 comments:
I think the similar paradoxes In John Donne's poem and the ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila is on the last sentence ----Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me. The rape that John Donne sought is not only his body ,but also his spirit. It is similar to the autobiography written by Teresa of Avila ,that she mentioned although the pain that was given by God was so severe , she still thought that the pain can bring her the sweetness and did not want the pain to cease；and she also mentioned about that the pain is not a physical but a spiritual pain, which is just like what John Donne wrote in “Batter my heart ,three-personed God”
I think the most obvious lines will be the end of the poem" Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me". chaste means impure and ravish meaning rape, the paradox is very clear here.
In "The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila", we can see the pain caused by the golden spear is a symbol of spiritual pain.
In "Batter my heart, three-personed God", "batter my heart" is also a seek of spiritual epiphanies.
In brief, I think both of their motifs are related.
I think "The ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila" and "Batter my heart ,three-personed God" both reveal clear paradox about the eagerness of going back to God's embrace with imperative tones.
On one hand, God is set to be a violent image; on the other hand, He is the only one who can save the speaker.
The poem "Batter my heart ,three-personed God" is filled with relations of God, such as "knock" revals "break" which represents "Father' power"; "breath" reveals "holy spirit"; "shine" reveals "son" representing "son."
Those statements are all about the first line-three personed God and shows strong will to be saved by God.
I think the motif of the two works is spiritual disturbance, and the similar paradoxes in John Donne's poem is the last sentence: Take me to You, imprison me, for I, Except You enthrall me, never shall be free, Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me. In this sentence John Donne mentions that only be God's slaves, we can recovery spiritual freedom. And he desires God's rape because he wants spiritual chastity. The two ideas are similar to Teresa of Avila's, which she describes the pain is severe but sweet because she enjoys spiritual annealing. I think they both personify God as their lovers to conflate sexual violence with spiritual/religious epiphanies.
I think the two poem are related;for instance,In "The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila", She said “When he pulled it out I felt that he took them with it, and left me utterly consumed by the great love of God.” It’s similar to John donne’s poem ”Batter my heart, three-personed God”, which said that “Take me to You, imprison me, for I, Except You enthrall me, never shall be free.” Both of the sentences used violence words such as ”pull it out” and ”imprison” and let readers think it is bad,but in fact the authors used it to set off their desire to the God, they accepted the pain willingly and get their spiritual redemption through the pain.
In John Donne's poem, the speaker want to get rid of Satan's temptation
but he/she is still used to enjoying it. " Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me" is the most important key sentence to relate the "The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila" because the feeling of Saint Teresa is not a physical but a spiritual pain. The situation is just the same as the speaker in Donne's poem.
Both of two poems have the same idea: be long for being enslaved by God; however, John Donne's poem has much more sexal or enthusiastic words such as "usuroed", "betrothed", "chaste", and so on. In short, John Donne's poem give me much more strong imaging that the speaker's religious ardor; for example, from line 10 to the end( But am betrothed unto your enemy: Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.) These sentences are the most apparent parts that show the speaker's crazy and eager love to God.
Both of the poems use many violent words and give a similar motif that they long for a physical pain to get the raising of things to a higher level of faith.
The ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila relates to the last verse--"Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me." I think ravish is the symbol of punishment here. Since the speaker thinks that he is sinful, he wants God to punish him violently. Undoubtedly, to be ravished is a horrible thing. However, only through that kind of extremely torturous punishment can he erase his sins and obtain freedom once again. Hence, for the speaker, the punishment is an ecstasy.
I think the last sentence "Take me to You, imprison me, for I, Except You enthrall me, never shall be free, Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me. " is the similar paradoxes in John Donne's poem which conflate sexual violence with spiritual epiphanies. Moreover, we can see the pain in "The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila" is also sipirtual.
Both poets use the same motif to interpret their love of God. Their works are pregnant with meaning because they use the violent words and images to relate with their love. God’s Love should be sacred and inviolable; however, they ask God to torture them to help them realize that God is so close to them, for they can have physical contact with God. What’s more, they break the formality of love with God. They are, paradoxically, using violent and obscene words to sustain their relationship with God. It’s so unthinkable that a Christian profanes their Faith to such a severe degree. I think they try hard to use alternative manner to their faith to hold firmly their beliefs. Their radical views of divinity fascinate my mind and conquer my heart thoroughly. I am really unable to abstract myself from their original imagination in such a crazy way.
Both of the article are express the strong love to God with extremely ways. In The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila, the extremely pain and the sweetness happend in the same time. And in John Dnne's poem's last sentence"Nor ever chaste,except You ravish me", this sentence is also shock me. Besides, the word"chaste" which means pure, but the word"ravish" which means outrage. It's obvious that paradoxe is.
I think the two poem's motif are the same. They also shaped God in to a violent figure. The speakers hope God using violent way to treat them. In John Donne's poem, the speaker uses verbs to illustrate God's actions. Also, we can see clearly in John Donne's poem that the speaker wants to be God's slave. He claims that only if God ravishes him can he be chaste. I think it is a paradox here.
I think the central themes of the two poems are both that "sex and religion are mingled together." The speakers could only be relieved by God's violent ways. In Donne's poem, Donne used paradoxes ,for example, when the speaker asked the holy God to put him in prison and ravish him.
In my point of view, "The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila" and"Batter my heart, three-personed God" correlate with each other; for instance, they both used some violent words which make us feel destructive. However,"The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa of Avila" and "Batter my heart, three-personed God" are talking about that they both accept the pain and get the spiritual redemption.
" Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me"is the clearest paradoxes here.
I think both of their motifs are related.
I think that the motif is Donne and Bernini's crazy love to God.
They both use sexual violence to make me feel impressed.
The both to me are a little kind of violent even the words make me feel uncomfortable. However, I think that the writers use the unrespectable words to ask the holly God to do something obscene maybe to clean up his/her inner sense of kind of crime or the feeling of guilty. And these two works show a familiar paradox like this, getting rid of bad or guilty feeling through the abnormal things done by the holly God.
I think what you guys said are all ritht. The similarities of these two poems are that they both talks about longing for going back to God's embrace and that they both use the violent words to give readers an image of over-whelming. For example, we can see that in the last four lines of John Donne's "Batter my heart, three-presoned God"-"Divorce me, untie or break that knot again, Take me to You, imprison me, for I, Except You enthrall me, never shall be free, Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me." And the similar paradoxes in the ecstasy of Sainr Teresa of Avila is "The pain was so severe that it made me utter several moans. The sweetness caused by this intense pain is so extreme that one can not possibly wish it to cease, nor is one's soul content with anything but God." So we can see that the two poems are related.
I think that the motifs of this two poems are related. Both of them use very violent words to express the same meaning.what's more, the paradox of this two poems is used for conveying the thought --- going back to the God's embrace.
As we all know, religious ecstacy isvery similar to sexual orgasm. Although it seems inappropriate to describe, the golden spear can be the penis. To some aspects, the poem itself can be a praise to the god.
these two poem both used violence image, they had a very similar matif of that the God will bring them pain but he will also change the soul to a purely one.
Although in both of the poems that show the violence image of God, it also shows how much they love him. They devote themselves to God. Maybe they cannot give him their body, but they utterly dedicate their spirit to him. Although the great love of God will cause their pain, it is the way they purify themselves. Like in "Batter my heart, three personed God," he said "Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me a new." Perhaps, God is the only one who knows them and can give them comfort.
There is no violence inferred within Teresa's poem, it is only the differential with time and space. Human time and the Lord's time are not the same, therefore in order to bring Teresa to his time there is a barrier that she ascribes to pain , because it is painful beyond sanity. Her words heal those that spend decades trying to ascertain "what happened to me when the light came inside" Kundalini awakening
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