The theme of "Leda and the Swan" is the barbarism of human history. The myth of Leda and the swan was a popular theme in Renaissance art, but the story was deemed as romantic and charming. In Yeats's version, the tale is shown from the victim's point of view. Impregnated by Zeus, Leda will give birth to Helen and Clytemnestra. Faithless Helen will trigger the 10-year Trojan War. Clytemnestra will kill her husband, Agamemnon, and be murdered in turn by their vengeful son, Orestes. In other words, Western culture is doomed from the very start. It's origin is tainted with deceit, treachery, and violence.
How do you link this pessimism to Yeats's view upon the Western civilization? What does it mean when the poet wonders whether Leda, "being so caught up" in her brief encounter with God, gained "knowledge" of the meaning of history? What is the meaning of this "knowledge"? Do human beings become more "knowledgable" or "wiser" from the lessons of history?
31 comments:
At the beginning, I could not understand why he used this myth as a link to the falling Sestern civilization; but later on, after the professor explained it, I regard it as a clever metaphor. These two things convey their relationship in cause and effect. As the teacher said, Western culture is doomed from the vey start result in it's deceive and violent beginning.
The knowledge refers to the future of this world; the author wonders whether Leda could envision the falling civilization when she was forced to have an intercourse with mighty Zeus.
From my point of view, people do learn something from the lessons of history with a condition that when it happens to others. As the proverb goes, "Men are blind in theri own cause." For example, when it comes to romance, people would simply go blind.
In fact, his poem is very abstract. How is the myth related to the western cinilization? After professor's explanation, I understand why he would write it this way. This poem shows the violence of human history. Like the professor had said, the western civilization is based on violence.
I think when Leda was forced to have sex with Zeus, she had already knew this would cause something bad. Later, we know what it is, Helen, the beautiful daughter of Zeus, the cause of Trojan war.I think he also produces an idea that everything you do has a consequence.
I do think history make people wiser, like an saying in Chinses, "take history as a mirror."
When I saw the title of this poem- “Leda and the Swan” at the first time, I think this would be associate with the images which I have learned from the Greek Mythology last semester. As far as I’m concerned, when it comes to “being so caught up “ in Leda’s brief encounter with God, the author manages to describe that Leda is forced to be caught by Zeus. And the next following lines which mention about Leda gaining knowledge with Zeus’s power. Knowledge here implies that Leda’s cognition of human’s history and civilization deriving from the deceit as well as violence. Therefore, it is the tragic inception for the history of human beings. From those lessons of history, I think these indeed make people a chance to think over and reflect on the lessons from these matters.
When I read this poem at the first time, I could not understand the reason of why Keats combined myth and civilization together. After teacher’s explanation, I could know Keats’ reason of combing. Keats used different way to describe Zeus and Leda. In this poem, Zeus is a sadist, marauder, and Leda is masochism. After Zeus raped Leda, the world was beginning worst than the past. The war was beginning since the pretty Helen.
Knowledge refers to the future. The author wanted to ask Leda that can you foresee the worst condition nowadays. I agree that history will make people much wiser. Because we can use the past experience from our ancestors, and prevent to do something wrong again.
In the poem, we can see a lot of violent words and descriptions. As the teacher said, western culture’s origin is based on the deceit, treachery, and violence. It shows the tragedy of the history. One violence will cause another violence and on and on. The “knowledge” that Yeats used in the poem meant whether Leda envisioned the falling of human while she was caught up by brute Zeus. I think history can always teach us something. Those tragic histories remind us not to make the same mistake again.
I always think that “Leda and the Swan” is a romantic story between human and God; however, Professor explained it as a violent event that makes me a little bit shock. I don’t understand the truth behind this story could be so terrible and ironic, and I agree Yeats’s view upon the Western civilization that it is full of violent and plundering. When people get the power, they become greed and blind. They can do everything to reach the goat and never satisfy.
The knowledge refers to the future of this world, and actually, I don’t think human can have any advancement now because the real nature of people is difficult to change.
When I heard this love story first, I thought it was a very strange story. Because when Zeus made love with Leda, the book thought it was romantic. How could it be romantic to do that with a stranger-a swan? That's a question in my mind. then, I read this poem, and find out that Keats represented a vivid scene process, not a beautified story.
After the professor told us it was something related with western civilization and history, I thought Keats is a very wise man to write those staff in this way. Then, I have some different idea when I think about power countries force weak countries to succumb
: Give them some benefits. The weak countries did succumb with scare, but they didn't think about what happen will their future be. It's a little same as what this poem said. In the future, maybe some disasters happen because they succumbed the strong power coutries in the past. I agree that human beings really learn lesson from history. The very big catastrophes: World War one and World War two, actually make people think more deeply that doing this whether is worthy or not. Now many people don't think that war can solve the problems because war just raise more problems for humen.
When I first saw the title” Leda and the Swan,” the image came into my mind was romantic and charming, just liked the article mentioned above. I have known this mythology for a long time, but I never thought this incident from the victim’s point. After the explanation from the professor, my stereotype of this history was totally toppled over. Yeats used this story to imply that the beginning of the Western Civilization was full of violent and deceit. The knowledge Leda gained from Zeus meant that after she had sex with Zeus, she gave birth to two daughters: Helen and Clytemnestra. Helen caused the Trojan War, and Clytemnestra killed her husband Agamemnon when he returned from Troy. These two incidents were full of violence, deceit, and treachery. I think we can gain some lessons and morals from the history. We can learn from the good aspect and alert to the bad.
The poem was written after World War I,which might indicate the poet's disappointment and despite against Western Civilization.I guess the reason for Yeats to derive from this myth was to emphasize that humans are responsible for their own doom.We are the one to be blamed for the destruction of our own accomplishments.As for the knowledge Leda gained through devine intercourse,the poet questioned whether the victim could foretell the catastrophic events in the future.In other words,the poet is raising an argument,"Can humans truly learn the lesson from history?"
In my point of view,I don't think we did,because there's a World War II soon afterwards.And just as Leda was so caught up in the "mighty glory",humans can also be easily blinded by many things such as arrogance or wrath,not merely in the situation of romance.
In my opinion, the violent scene of Zeus raped Leda was the author's implication of humans' violence and cruelty, as if the author forsaw something violent like that might happen. The poem was written in 1924 when WW1 had just subsided and during that time, lots of poets were fighting against war. Maybe the writer was disappointed about the war and human nature because in his mind, human beings should not be cruel, not even to mention to raise a war. I think the writer depicted the thought of humans' violence and cruelty very well.
Because of the western to literature class, I learned that Leda was not volunteer to have sex with Zeus. In Yeats' poem, he describes the scene of that shock event. I think the pessimism view of Western civilization from Yeats is that anything bad is come from its origin; however, it also seems like that nothing could be prevent before it happened. A lot of articles and stories from Western literature show us that everything is destinied. It sounds like passive that we could only wait the end, no matter how hard we try to eliminate it. Such as Oedipus the king, those people try to avoid the tragedy happen; the consequence still the same.
I think human beings are not more wise after history. We could see that a lot of things are just like a circle and repeat again and again. It always when the worst thing happen human beings start to recollect themselves.
I’m really gratified that I had chosen the class “Backgrounds of Western Literature” for a whole last semester year. At first time, I was a little confused that why we have to study the mythology, but now when I read many poems in this class, I suddenly see the light that the origin of the western civilization is surely mythology. Before reading this poem, I was aware of some ridiculous, absurd and unbelievable matters in school. It’s implausible for me to face squarely toward some people or affairs then. And after interpreting the meaning behind the surface of this poem, I totally know the unexceptionable match of western culture from mythology to literature and also certified in daily life. I was certainly surprised that this poem provided me a broaden look on the phenomenon of whole world no matter in the past, the present or the future. It gave me the answer to my doubt. Why things go on like this or like that? When Leda caught up by Zeus, she gained knowledge. From Yeat’s view, this rape which is a tragedy of human history; however, I wonder he also foretold the chronicle recurs successively and the devastation of human hereafter. That is the meaning of the knowledge. Wickedness, violence, swindle, massacre and strife appear in the world everyday from the day Leda is violated, because the beginning of human culture started on the infringement. I question that who really cares about the historical lessons even we can be wiser from them. Therefore, whether human beings are becoming more knowledgeable from the lesson, they’re doomed to live with the darkness forever.
I did not aware of the connection between Western civilization and the story of Leda the Swan until I read this poem. I thought “Leda and the Swan” is merely one of love stories of Zeus. However, Yeats uses severe words to tell the process of the swan's raping of Leda (in a detailed discrimination). This poem makes me feel that the mythology is a bald falsehood. Zeus is somehow described as a marauder.
I can see that why Yeats thinks Western culture is doomed from the very start- the origin is tainted with deceit, treachery, and violence. Perhaps the event of Leda and Swan reminds Yeats the wars (Trojan War) and tragedy that happened after this. I personally think the assumption of Zeus’ knowledge as well as his power "Before the indifferent beak could let her drop" is an injustice lie. Why a victim (the girl) should should be thankful for the power she have after the violent rape by a massive swan. Perhaps, the whole story is a reflection of the occult history of the world.
Before reading this poem, I regarded the story of Leda and the Swan just an event in western literature. However, after reading the poem written by W.B.Yeats, I found myself see this event in another perspective. Instead of saying that Zeus is almighty, Yeats described him as a sadist, and Leda is the victim under his power. Most importantly, the poem suggests that western culture is doomed from the very start. All the events in history are like connected with one another, just like a chain. By ‘’knowledge’’, the author is questioning whether she (Leda) is aware of the outcome the action will ultimately lead to. From my point of view, I think human beings rarely learn the lesson from history, and all the violence and deceit will be an endless cycle.
Just as what teacher has mentioned: to the poet, the history of humankind originates from “deceit” and “violence.” In the meanwhile that Leda was raped by Zues, Leda also absorb Zues’s knowledge. The knowledge implies the occurrence and the reasons of humankind’s war. I think that people will become wiser than the past. We can escape many tragic (wars) from the past history.
i think that Yeats is pessimism because he thinks that the beginning of human history stared in a violent way. Leda was being caught up by Zeus. At that moment, it seemed that the fate of weatern civilization was doomed. The myth is a symbol of beginning in human history. On ther hand, although Leda ewas be caught up by Zues, she might be accept the bountiful knowledge from Zeus. I think that the "knowledge" in the poem means the developement of literature in western country.However, even though Human is more knowlegdable. People seems to never to learn the lesson from history.
i think that Yeats is pessimism because he thinks that the beginning of human history stared in a violent way. Leda was being caught up by Zeus. At that moment, it seemed that the fate of weatern civilization was doomed. The myth is a symbol of beginning in human history. On ther hand, although Leda ewas be caught up by Zues, she might be accept the bountiful knowledge from Zeus. I think that the "knowledge" in the poem means the developement of literature in western country.However, even though Human is more knowlegdable. People seems to never to learn the lesson from history.
I think that Yeats want to remind people that we need to be more civilized because there is still a lot of barbaric behavior in the world. Human seems not gain so much knowledge after the event, and we still have crime, war and violence. People haven’t learned from history and still been savage in some aspect. Nowadays, we have improvement of technique, information or weapon, but the civilization seems not improve too much. Yeats gave us a severe warning; moreover, we should introspect ourselves what we have done from before to present.
“Leda and Swan” is a poem which describes the adultery of Zeus and Leda, and it also brings the pessimism to the readers. Because it turns out to be a tragic opening to the continuous wars, and it can not be stopped for it is destined by the fate. After their adultery, Leda would bear Helen, who is the main reason to cause the Troy war. But can it be prevented? No. Because Zeus caught it tightly, Leda could not struggle with him. Therefore, she must face this situation. Due to the evitable consequence which can not change, people must accept the bad future for them and take the pessimistic attitude to pass their lives. But what does the knowledge means in the poem? It means the everlasting turning and turning; no matter how we did in our life, we could not get rid of this kind of destiny. We should experience this history again and again, so it is the reason for readers to think it’s a pessimistic poem. People wouldn’t learn the lesson in the history.
I think Leda might be those innocent people who are taken advantage of in the struggle of the people holding the power in the history. Those people have no choice but being abridged of their own rights and accepting the result causing by the dictators.
That is why she is "being so caught up". When Leda gained the knowledge, I thought she encoutered the unavoidable repeating of the history.
This poem is written after WWI. The reason why Yeasts was so pessimistic is that he was totally disappointed by the war and people’s lack of savvy of learning something from the history. His point of view, which made him so pessimistic, is expounded in this poem. Zeus’s rape toward Leda, indicated by this poem, was the origin of the enormous chaos later appearing in the world, meaning the violence and barbarism of human nature. Because of this wicked human nature, there were so many wars taking place in the world. When the poet says that he wonders whether Leda, "being so caught up" in her brief encounter with God, gained "knowledge" of the meaning of history, I think what he truly wonders is that whether or not human beings could ever learn something from the history. (In my eyes, the knowledge here means the barbarism of the human history, which had caused many wars resulting in a lot of loss and death.) I think here Yeats is actually asking a question in reply, which answer is “no,” for he is in fact accusing the ignorant and barbaric people of warring.
Despite Yeats’s pessimism, I think people do become wiser little by little from the lessons of history, and it’s why we can finally live in the world without wars now. I believe that history is a valuable treasure because we can actually learn something from it, which can help the world get improved from the past knowledge and make us not make the same mistakes again.
The human history origins from barbarism; therefore, the poet wonders whether Leda have conceived what she would have encountered after she was forced to have intercourse with Zues. She was so caught up by her destiny; can I say it like this? The knowledge that she gained may refers to the numerous incidents that result from this rape.
Sometimes we learn in history, but it seems hard for us not to make the same mistake again. We shall learn from history; however, it is always hard to judge whether a choice is right or not.
When I first saw the poem, I'm quite skocked by the poem because I had thought that the love affair between Zeus and Leda supposed to be a romantic story. However, the poem convey this story in such an violent way that indicates the violence of human history. After the professor made an analysis of the poem, I finally understand something. When Leda was raped by Zeus, she must had a feeling in her mind that this incident will cause a big disaster. And it come true indeed.
From my own point of view, i consider Leda as the victim of those wars of Westurn society. i think human did not get wiser than before; that is, we went through World War I, but there came the World War II. Although we know history can teach us something, we can't have the redemption. History is just keep repeating, and there is no end for it
History will repeat itself, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. In poet’s pessimistic view on human kind, I think that is reasonable and fair enough to be pessimistic looking from Christians’ viewpoint. Bible is a collection of story about getting forgiven and resurrection, with a no-so-happy assumption with human nature. The knowledge didn’t give much help; except making it more painful when you once know all the processing, and you are so powerless to change anything. I am with the poet in this, but instead of worrying about it, I took the message pessimistically optimistic with carpe diem. Don’t get too carry away with the word wise, I is just only another way of saying ignorance.
I think this poem can be extended to a lot of meanings in human civilization. When I read the first stanza I soon connect the swan with the image of the battle plane during the war time. I also think the image of the swan is like those who get the power always greedy deprive poor people’ rights and it happens routinely in human history. From the history when can get a lot of lesions and learn the knowledge. But it is upset to say that from the history, so many story tell us that human’s nature are greedy and once they get power they may do things blindly and cruel.
Every consequence comes from a reason in the beginning . Like history is the best example to prove . Everyone make mistakes through their lives . That's how people learn lessons and grow . The elder people always tell us and end with a warning that we should catch the wrong demonstration from ancient history in order to avoid it to happen again . However , people just can’t escape from this destiny . Or to say critically , we folks have the rebellious personality to challenge the fate . In poem “Lada and the swan” , Yeats tries to use the myth to connect with the time he faced and accuse some truth we have already known without achieving . It is consist of wild disappointment and unhappiness . Though we have seen it so many times , we still make wrong decision then let the bad things coming up again . We are not more wiser through the lessons of history .
Because that Leda was caught up by the Swan means just like she was raped by the almighty God, and due to this, the poet may think that whether Leda could gain anything by rape, especially by God. Leda was innocent and why she would encounter with this thing is really interesting. It seems just like human beings who couldn't say no to those terrible things. However, we always say that we can learn experience from the history. But we also say, we can't learn from the history and we follow the same old disastrous road. Are those terrible things really inevitable？ I think maybe we just being a victim and don't try hard to make us strong enough to combat against them.
This mythology usually deemed as romantic and charming. But in this poem, Yeats used a vision’s point of view to describe. When Leda was raped by Zeus, she also gained the Knowledge from Zeus. I think “knowledge” means the ugly side of human nature such as deceit and violence. Human beings may become wiser from the lessons of history because we have the ability to learn and to differentiate between right and wrong.
When we read this poem,I feel sorry for Leda because her unpredictable fate. She never would know that one day Zeus will met her and have her breed Helen and Clytemnestra. Helen, who said to be the reason of the Trojan War, was born in this kind of violence. I think the poet's view to the Western history is some kind of disappoint and anger.
This poem was shocking me when I saw the poem. Base on what I know about this poem is a romantic story. However, the poem is really violence and the theme of the poem is that human’s history is come from violence.
I don’t think human beings become more "knowledgable" or more "wise" from the lessons of history. As we can seen many bad things are occurring unceasingly. When we read news paper, we will see that every day’s news are similar: war, murder, fraudulent conduct, car accident and so on. The murderer be arrest, be sentenced; then, the new one come.
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